BONIFACE
The following is an oral history interview with Brother Boniface. The interview was conducted on May 7, 1972, by Randee Minnoch, in the Abbey of the Holy Trinity, Huntsville, Utah. Brother Boniface talks about his background and involvement in the monastery.
Shared with permission from Weber State University Oral History Program
Brother Boniface
RM: Brother Boniface, would you tell me where you were born and where you were raised;
some of your background and environment.
BB: I was born in New York City, in the Bronx, under the shadow of the Yankee Stadium. This was in 1918; so it puts us back about 53 years. I was surprised to find myself out here in these canyons of the Rocky Mountains when I lived in the canyons of New York City with tall buildings. It is quite a contrast when I consider the inner city and the isolation of the Rocky Mountains.
RM: Why did you decide to join the Monastery?
BB: After I graduated from college in 1941, it was the time of the Second World War.
Spending four years in the Army, there was plenty of opportunity for travel and seeing life in all of its aspects. I always had an inclination for work and prayer; and then, being thrown into the Army and going over-seas--France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg and Germany itself. So, when the time for discharge came, it was very easy to make your choice. Of course, you had to leave the service. There was civilian life; there was marriage; there was further schooling; there was commerce; there was industry or this deep call in my heart of work and prayer. So, I looked the field over; and I says, "God, it seems that I follow this inclination of work and prayer." To fulfill this desire, monasticism had the answer because it is geared and set up of work and prayer. The Benedictine Rule helps in areas very well. With this, I entered the Monastery
exactly 27 years ago.
RM: Was it this Monastery that you entered?
BB: No. We had our large Monastery in Kentucky. Immediately after the Second World War, so many servicemen came into the Monastery we were bulging; and we had to expand. So, we looked around the United States to find a suitable spot to come to. We wanted solitude as one of the pre-requisites for monastic life. So, that's the nucleus-- that's the beginning of our Monastery here in Utah.
RM: And they just simply selected it because they wanted seclusion?
BB: Yes. All monasteries are out of cities and towns; and there must be a degree of separation from the world--where you can have seclusion and a good degree of silence. Mountain districts are very conducive for this. The valleys are very good, too, and remote country areas. The Rocky Mountains are ideal for the situation. And, again, we followed the lead which God was giving us; and we came to Huntsville.
Tom introduces Brother Boniface and his friendship and invites you to pray with him as he begins to write a new book.
RM: Do you think you have faced the reality of life? That those who join a monastic organization are facing the realities of living?
BB: Probably more so than you would in the world. I could be very frank with you, very open, as I have been with many—speaking with many college groups, high school groups, with many church groups. I came into the Monastery, I was 27, after the Second World War; and I told you my ambition was to work and to pray. I thought I was a good boy— giving something to God. That I will serve God. I am a man. I am mature; and I know what I am doing. So naturally, I came into the Monastery. There was a two or three year training period which we call a novitiate. You have plenty of time for silence, and solitude, and prayer, and reading, and meditation.
In this, you begin seeing yourself as you are—very normal. You have normal inclinations. You have normal desires. You have left the world; but you bring much of the world with you. Your whole life background is part of you. Anything you did is there in you. Slowly I began to see I had some hang-ups and deficiencies and weaknesses. It wasn’t a pleasant revelation. We like to see our good points; but not the weak points. But, to be realistic again, you face these things; and you have many to whom you can talk in dialogue about all you have experienced. And, you open yourself up to them; and you tell them about yourself. And, they advise you, they guide you— sort of a psychological counseling and encouragement.
One of my hang-ups was—I wasn’t aware of it; and yet, it was there all my life. When I was a kid (probably I was in the 6th Grade), it was my turn to read. I was reading; and I came across the word “comfortable”. And I read it, and I read it “com-for-table”. The kids in the class laughed; and the teacher said, “Son, you read that again.” So, I said, “Com-for-table.” The teacher took me by the ear; and she says, “Come. I’ll take you to your sister’s class;” and that was the 8th Grade. I got up there as a cocky kid; and I said, “Com-for-table.” The class laughed and roared. That punch hit me—that humiliation of being ostracized publicly and taken by the ear. I didn’t know what happened; but I just buried that shame, that humiliation. All during my life, I kept it buried. I didn’t know what was in me; but I was sort of retiring and afraid that if I come on the scene, I’d be ostracized.
In fact, when I graduated from college, I had a commission in the Army; but I didn’t take it. Again subconsciously, that as an officer, I would have to meet my squadron, my platoon. I’d have to command. That frightened me. So, I went into the Army as an enlisted man. And, I wasn’t too aware specifically where the trouble was as yet. But, you could see, underlying, how that hang-up was there. I could live a normal, steady life and do everything else; yet that hang-up was there.
But, on a monastic set-up, it would open up. And in silence, I can’t run away. I can’t hide it any more. Now I began facing it; and I say, “Let’s look at it yourself, Brother. You thought that you were coming to give God glory, and here you find yourself—you’re just a stinker.” With this, I faced the tension that I am weak. I have this hang-up; and I admitted it and I faced the pulpit. My former first speeches I had to give in Gethsemane, at the Monastery, was at an anniversary. The Master asked two or three men before me, “Would you give this speech?” The first one said no. The second was an Army officer; and he said no, too. He didn’t want to. And, he came to me, I said, “Here’s your chance, kid.” So, I said, “Master, you know I won’t refuse you anything. I’ll give that speech.” A trepidation; and I’ll have to meet myself in public. But, when I went out, the very first thing I said, “I come to you in a degree of fear and trembling; but as I am, I’ll present what I have to say.” I spoke about ten minutes. With that, I took the initial step. I was baptized now. I opened up this area. So, from now on, I could—it’s there, but it’s open. Now I could meet everyone face-to- face.
As I meet people, we all have this deep area of shame and of hiding something. Sometimes it is the drug situation. Sometimes it is the sex situation. Sometimes it is an alcoholic problem. Sometimes it is a family problem. Sometimes it is a youth growing-up problem. We all have them. It is a normal thing. I’ll give you a very good example of how normal it is.
I met a man about 8 years ago that I knew very well. He spoke to me about a suicide attempt. Fortunately, I didn’t speak to him or preach to him about it. I just sent him a card that our prayers would be with him. After he got over the hump, he came here and told me precisely about what drove him toward suicide. And now he was in tremendous peace and joy. When he was a kid in the cradle at about 6 months old, someone took the bottle from him and that was the beginning of his suicide. He couldn’t express himself, so he clenched his fists, he couldn’t tell the person off. So all through his life he would suppress anger. He wouldn’t express it to a person, he just kept it and hid it. During his army career, he liked his toast with just a little butter. His wife gave it to him dark with a lot of butter. That was the crowning point. He didn’t tell her off, he just hid it as a gentleman and smiled at her and said ‘thank you’. With this tremendous build up, he decided to commit suicide. But somehow God intervened. He went to a psychiatrist, just two or three times. He looked at it and just kicked it right out. He had tremendous peace overcome him because he had faith. People marveled at his peace and joy.
It is a great benefit to be open because now you can have compassion and understand them and give them a kind word and see how human and loving you are. I met quite a few psychiatrists and psychologists here from the University. I spoke to them with this freeness and openness. And, they marveled at the peace and joy that there is. I simply tell them it’s this openness to life—openness to people. I tell them it’s a great benefit to have faced this; because, now anyone you meet you can have compassion. You can understand them. You can give him a kind word; and he could see how human and loving you are. You can relate to them very easily. Especially, working here at the bookstore, I meet very many; and this openness, it’s a great help.
RM : Didn’t you ever want to express this peace and joy to the entire outside world? If it was possible?
BB: Yes. And, that is probably one of my great pains in my heart. We express it in prayer; and we ask Christ—we ask God to, to do what we cannot do. As you meet people, you die a lot. You find how poor words can be. As good as they are, as good as the consolation, as good as the help you can give them, it takes a little more than that. Ultimately, it does take the grace of God to give sanity, to give peace, to give joy.
That’s where prayer comes in.
That’s what we do seven times a day, I ask God to do what my weak words cannot do. This peace, as I tell people, it’s now 13 years, I have almost non-interrupted peace and joy—almost non-interrupted peace and joy. Yet, each day, I give God a tear, of the eye or of the heart, to be true in what I was telling you. To face myself as I am, to see how human, how loving I am. Yet, remembering I have the Vow of Poverty, of Chastity, of Obedience, of Stability which I made to God. So, now, being human and having the Vow of Chastity. You must grow, you must mature, even in this angle. Yet, there isn’t a woman in our life. Modern psychiatry is saying there should be a relationship, how normal marriage is, and how maturity goes with this. But, now we take these very desires, these very inclinations, and even these very temptations. We open ourselves up to God; and if you have the faith, He will give you the peace. He will give you the fulfillment, if I may use the word, far surpassing than what the world can give you. “My peace I give to you; My peace I leave to you. Not as the world do I give unto you.”
With this openness to God, there is this constant peace. It is not so much answering the problems of life; but rather living life—living the reality. Living a very normal life. Accepting tensions, accepting one’s weaknesses, accepting one’s humanity, accepting the joys of life, accepting the challenges of life. So, in all this acceptance, we know that God is at work. And what is your response? In this response, you do turn to Him.
Sometimes, as I speak to these ladies I tell them of these different forms of [...] and I try to tell them on a higher level, on a spiritual level the love God has for us. He is not with us; and, yet, He is loving us. It is a spiritual love. It is an understanding. It is a compassion. It is a mercy. It is—it is all in the value system that’s not seen; and, yet, how real they are—how real. And, as I tell people: peace and joy is the answer. God gives it to you when He gives you this touch of Himself. You know, that there is a God. You know you don’t believe so much in God because you see Him. The peace is this touch. The joy is His constant touch with you—that He is with you. So, therefore, having this peace, having this fulfillment, and you could say, maturity, you won’t have to seek these other values which are good in themselves, which are normal, which are maturing. But, you will possess it on a different plane. That is our Vow of Chastity, as I am explaining.
You know, many are leaving religious life, the Priesthood and things like that. Many couples are being divorced because they haven’t come into this reality of God’s presence. That’s precisely what monasticism is. Our founder, Saint Benedict, in the 6th Century, he was already telling that you come to the Monastery to listen. There will be silence and solitude. There will be work and prayer. “You listen, my child; and you will obey because you know that obedience is a normal part of life.” And, as you obey, in this faith, you will see yourself and you will need help in many areas. So, what you can’t do by nature; you ask God. He will give you the grace, the help. As you persevere in God’s grace and help, one day He will come to you and tell you that He is present. “Behold, I am present,” quoting Isaiah. After this, whatever was difficult, now becomes easy. Whatever was hard, now you do with grace, with ease, with joy, with peace because you know God is with you.
Your coming here wasn’t yourself. I believe that God sent you here for a purpose. You know it not. And as I am talking to you, it is a dialogue in the presence of God. He is with us here now. “Where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in their midst.” So He is our peace. I have no peace, but I can turn to God, so He is our peace. So, you see this value system—I see not, but I believe.
The Vow of Obedience I make to the Abbott—to obey him as my lawful superior, as my father. And, what he tells me, I take it as Christ says, “As they tell you, you do. He who hears you, hears Me.” So, now I approach Him in faith that it’s the obedience of the Father’s will. The prayer being, “Our Father, Father thy will be done,” So, each day, you and I would have a will to fulfill. In direct proportion, as we fulfilled that will, we would have this peace, this peace which is Christ, this peace which is God. That’s the flower of monasticism—to come into the presence of God and to live with this presence. It’s an experience. The world is seeking this experience. Many are seeking, many are looking. I encourage people to continue—as long as you truly are seeking that touch will come.
I do meet people from the inner city whom have come face-to-face with God. Pope Paul VI put it, “A Monk is looking at God alone, desires God alone, is devoted to God alone.” The presence of God again. He calls this—he says it’s a mystical illumination of contemplation. You see how God is at work in today’s world; and you share this experience with the world in prayer. Now, you ask, “Father, give us this day our daily bread.” The material bread and the spiritual bread, too. We have wheat out in the field. We have alfalfa, and we have water. God, we’ll plant and we’ll water; but you give the growth. We have many prayers to answer. Many people send us letters, telephone calls, visits—asking for prayers.
So, in this mystical illumination, we see how God is working. Now we ask for our daily bread, peace, joy, compassion, love, understanding. To feed the hungry, to console the weak, to strengthen those in temptation. Now you see how this flowering of silence and solitude comes into the presence of God; then, from the presence of God into the world. So, now, I can consider myself universal. Yet, I have nothing directly to do with the world. Yet, my influence is universal. You notice Christ never left His little area, His Jerusalem, His Galilee. Yet, universal repercussions of His life and His teachings and His Gospel. Two thousand years later, this influence is with us. As we become united to Him, His spirit lives on today. That’s monasticism—to carry on the spirit of Christ . Only imitate Christ in this one angle, He’s guiding you to the mountain of prayer, this being alone with the Father, His prayers and his sacrifice. Saint Paul says “ I die daily.” To die to what you like to do, to what you think you could do, but let God decide what should be done and how it should be done in prayer effectively.
RM: I have one final question. Do you have any regrets?
BB: No. To answer that, just a few weeks ago, I was speaking with Brother Edward; and I said, “So many have been leaving and the worlds in such turmoil, how do you feel about our vocation, Brother?” And, Brother Edward said, “Each day there is a growth. It’s like a magnet. You’re getting closer to it. It’s drawing you closer and closer and stronger and stronger. The pull is becoming irresistible. And, when it’s going and how, I know not; but I leave myself free to the magnetism of God’s love.”
Randee, may you be a blessed human. May your heart and your future know Christ’s coming.
RM: Thank you.